Conversation with Republican mayoral candidate Curtis Sliwa

This is a transcript of an on the record conversation between Republican mayoral candidate Curtis Sliwa and Manhattan Institute’s John Ketcham, Director of Cities and Senior Fellow, Daniel Di Martino, Fellow working on immigration policy, Carolyn Gorman, Paulson Policy Analyst studying homelessness, mental illness and health care, Paul Dreyer, Cities Policy Analyst, and Liena Zagare, who writes the Bigger Apple newsletter. The conversation took place on August 25, 2025. Transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. 

John Ketcham: I’m so delighted and grateful for you all coming. Mr. Sliwa, this is an opportunity for you to make your pitch to the public, have your voice heard among our audience. A summary of our conversation along with the transcript will be in the Bigger Apple newsletter this week. 

Curtis Sliwa: I appreciate it. Well, today, obviously you saw the president headlined his executive order in DC, which is to eliminate a cashless bail policy. Which obviously federal city, easiest to do there, although I anticipate they’ll probably take him to court, but he’ll eventually prevail. 

Obviously, you know, looming is the 2019 cashless bail policy of then Governor Cuomo, who has since doubled down on it. Actually, in an interview just last week, said he can’t see a correlation between cashless bail, no cashless bail, and the rise in violent crime and misdemeanor crime. He can’t see the correlation. He’s already in the throes of a mayoral campaign. He’s doubled down on it. It has led to a complete catastrophe in New York City. 

Now, if you are on the far left, obviously, like Zohran Mamdani, you’re a hybrid with Cuomo, because you believe exactly the same thing, even to a more extreme, [for example] his positions about misdemeanors, that they should not be an arrestable offense. A lot of people don’t remember, but when he was just the Assemblyman and not the world known Zohran Mamdani, and again, that all came about because Eric Adams is a failed mayor. Had he been a halfway decent mayor, he would have been the Democratic incumbent, and it would have been round two: Eric Adams versus Curtis Sliwa. No doubt in my mind, Cuomo would not have chosen to intervene. He probably would have kept his powder dry and attempted to go against Kathy Hochul in a Democratic primary. 

And then, clearly, I don’t believe that Zohran Mamdani would have had the success that clearly he has had. Probably would have been somebody like Brad Lander, who had given up the comptroller slot because he sensed that obviously Eric Adams was on, then, thin ice, and it’s just gotten increasingly more thin. So in terms of my particular campaign, I am completely in favor of what the President has said today. No cash bail must be eliminated if we are to attempt any kind of recovery in the state of New York, in the city of New York. 

It is the main reason that people are cut loose into the streets. To just give you two examples: in Greenwich Village the other week, two men who’d done time for manslaughter and murder. Were released out on parole. They were selling drugs – big drug hot spot down there. They were arrested. They were cut loose because of the no bail provision that said, unless you are a major drug dealer, which means you’re bringing in weight, kilos, you’re really making a lot of money, you are subject to no cash bail. The public looks at that and says, “What? They’re out on the streets? Parole?” Not at all unusual. 

Over the weekend, I was in Whitestone. You probably saw the situation of the carjacker who first went to a nearby Mobil station. We actually spoke, if you wanted to look on our social network, and we spoke to the owner of the Mobil station who confronted this guy at 8:30 in the morning who was trying doors to get access in so that he could carjack one of the cars that were being fixed on the property. The owner and operator confronted him, fought him off. He went around the block. There was a woman in her car outside of her home. He attempted to carjack her. Luckily, her husband was coming down the steps of their home, confronted the carjacker. The carjacker continued. Confronted an Uber driver at a light a few blocks away, forcibly removed the Uber driver, threw him out of the Uber, drove a little bit, realized he needed the keys, came back, beat down the Uber driver for the keys. The cops responded, unfortunately, a friendly fire incident. One of the police officers was shot. Turns out, this is a predicate felon who had just been released from a fare evasion charge where they knew he was on parole for having done time for an armed robbery. Why was he released? Almost no cash bail, and this guy, we’re talking about eight serious charges. 

So we go on and on. Another recent case. Remember, the case where that young man kicked to death a dog in South Ozone Park, dragged him, then poured lighter fluid on the dog, set him ablaze and ran away. The young man was actually from Canisius College, good education outside of Buffalo, but very much like Michael Vick, an animal abuser. So we went out into the streets. 

Rusat [Ramgopal] was from the area, he ran against Adrienne Adams as a Republican candidate, did a very good job, and we rounded up neighbors. We went door to door. People wanted to get more involved to find the person who had tortured and killed the dog than if it had been a let’s say a person was a victim. The 110th precinct arrested him after we had leafleted the area. They did a good job. Multiple charges, [he was] released, Cuomo, no cash bail. It doesn’t matter, and without addressing that, which now the President is going to make this a primary issue. You could hire all the cops that your budget can bear, and I want to hire 7,000 because we are in such dire straits in terms of the number of police officers available. But even with all of that, this no cash bail is preventing criminals from ever, in most instances, ever expecting to do any time for their crime. There are no consequences because of that, and some of the DA’s [District Attorneys] expeditiously, and judges always use this as an excuse to turn somebody loose. So this has to be confronted.

John Ketcham: Well, if we could just ask about your relationship to the Trump administration. Were you to become the mayor, you’d be leading the biggest city in the nation, a very heavily Democratic city, and you’d be doing so as a Republican. How do you envision working with the Trump administration and potentially managing areas of tension with that administration as mayor?

Curtis Sliwa: There’s been a lot of misinformation about me, mostly put out by Andrew Cuomo, who said that the president was an existential threat to America and democracy when he was running in the primaries, then goes out to a bunch of well heeled potential contributors in the Hamptons and says, “No, no, no, I and the president we’ve talked, and in fact, is there’s no interest in Curtis Sliwa Being Republican candidate.” Interesting, nobody has told me that. Why would anybody believe Andrew Cuomo? You know, he’s a pathological liar, but he’s a well known person. 

I’m the only person who voted for Donald Trump. I campaigned for Donald Trump. I was on the radio, as you all know, WABC always broadcasting Curtis talking about my support of Donald Trump leading into this last election, versus first it was Biden, then Harris. 

Number two, let’s look at the three Democratic candidates, because although Zohran Mamdani is the most extreme, Eric Adams and Andrew Cuomo share a lot in common with him. They believe that non-citizens should vote, Eric Adams had the law on his desk. City Council passed, he could have vetoed it. Nope. Democrats want non citizens to vote. It would be the end of the Republican Party as we know it in New York City and New York State. Thankfully, the GOP leadership went all the way up the rung State Supreme Court. They said, “No, no. The State Constitution is very clear. You must be a citizen to vote.” And then Adrienne Adams again renewed that, and I know the Democratic Party will continue to be relentless about that. 

Sanctuary city. All three, Zohran, Adams and Cuomo are in favor of the sanctuary city. I’m the only candidate saying I’m opposed. But, here’s a caveat. Eric Adams has had the opportunity two years running charter revision. He took control of that from the City Council. Could have put as a ballot initiative whether we should remain a sanctuary city, or whether we should no longer be a sanctuary city. Person after person who testified wanted that as a ballot initiative he chose no. I know why. 

There’s money in being a sanctuary city. Most of the problems that he’s had in his administration are the result of no bid contracts with the kickbacks that resulted. Timothy Pearson will soon be indicted. He’s just one of many that benefited greatly from those no-bid contracts that led to kickbacks, or as Timothy Pearson was quoted over and over again, once he gave you a contract, he’d say, “I don’t even get crumbs?” 

That’s like Joe Percoco. Remember, the late breaker for Cuomo goes, “Where’s the ziti?” Corruption is corruption is corruption. That’s why they want to maintain the sanctuary city. I’m the only one who says, leave it to the voters. A., I know the African American community would vote it down, as they would have done in Chicago, but if you remember, the city council yanked that initiative. They realized, “woof, we’re going to lose this.” It’s money in being a sanctuary city. 

So just on those two levels alone, I have taken the Republican position. They have taken the Democratic position, and we can go right on down the line in terms of how I differentiate myself. Now, there are times where the Mayor of the City of New York, who represents all people, whether they’re friends or they’re foes or they’re somewhere in between – and the budget that the President had passed, the beautiful budget, calls for major cuts to the state that directly will impact on the city. 

Our housing, NYCHA, 60% of the budget is provided by the federal government. They are cutting in half the subsidies to the state government, which subsequently will cut the subsidies to the city government. Now I’m not saying that shouldn’t happen, but that’s too draconian a cut, because you’re talking about 350 public housing projects, you’re talking about 770,000 apartments, by the way, 6,000 that are warehousing. In a housing crisis, how does the Adams administration warehouse 6,000 apartments a day directly controlled by NYCHA? I’ve seen many of them. It’s mind boggling. And in fact, they are the worst landlord in all of New York City, the way they manage the NYCHA project, and you have close to a million residents all told you know, when you have HUD housing, whether it’s a public housing project or it’s Section 8 housing. So I would say it has to be done. There’s a lot of waste. The brand new Secretary of HUD came in and said, “No, no, we’re cutting, cutting, cutting, cutting.” But what are we to do with all of these folks? Only 30% pay any rent, because it’s all based on income. Everyone else is subsidized. Do we just put them into the streets? Do we fill up shelters? 

So I would approach the Trump administration, say, look, if there’s one thing I know, it’s subways and public housing, because I’ve been in most of the units. You have to do this in gradual levels. I would propose to the administration that we renew the old Jack Kemp proposal during the Reagan years, when he was HUD Secretary [note: Kemp was HUD Secretary under George H.W. Bush], but his own Republican Party shot him down. Provide an opportunity and ownership of the units so they become like a co-op, a poor man, poor woman’s condo, where they can start contributing some money and end up with ownership. Ownership makes all the difference in the world. If you just continue to subsidize housing, if you continue with the old model of HUD, it’s doomed to collapse. It’s just not money out there to subsidize all this. And I know there are different concepts and ideas. I would propose to revive the Jack Kemp concept, which was a brilliant concept during the Reagan years.

Daniel Di Martino: I think Jack Kemp just said, you know, to make it easier, just give it away for free to the people who already live there. They’re the owners now, and then, they can do whatever they want.

Curtis Sliwa: And I would say, you don’t give it away for free. It’s like, if I give you a baseball glove for free, I don’t take care of it as well as if I had to invest something into that, and I vote for anything in life.

John Ketcham: But as you mentioned, Mr. Sliwa, the federal government controls billions in local funding, about 6.5% of the City’s operating budget. So, you know that the city has a balanced budget requirement each year. Given the prospect of these cuts at the federal level, what would you do to try to get some of that federal money coming back to New York City, and how would you balance a budget if you aren’t able to get all of it back?

Curtis Sliwa: Well, through the state GOP chairman Ed Cox, he had arranged meetings. I’ve had two so far, more to come. The Citizens Budget Commission, they did a complete analysis of the budget. This is an election year budget. No money was put in the rainy day fund whatsoever. Very little in the reserve. The administration knew when Eric Adams embraced Adrienne Adams, embraced Justin Brannan, the financial committee chairperson, that they were in a perilous situation, with the recent report of Tom DiNapoli to the state legislature and to Governor Hochul, that there’s a $34 billion gap in the budget. I mean, everything that came in through COVID is over. They lived a high life on COVID money. It’s all over. The good times are not going to roll anymore. 

They made absolutely no provisions to deal with that, because obviously, Eric Adams is trying to get reelected, and he’s already making stops for these, playing Santy Claus with our money, giving away grants, subsidies. I’m like, if they are allowed to continue, both at the state level and the city level, get us to a point where I ended up starting Guardian Angels back in 1979 as a result of fiscal malfeasance on the part of the city. Where at that point, Governor [Hugh] Carey had to impose a financial control board that’s still in effect. I remember specifically Felix Rohatyn representing the banker’s interest. Victor Gotbaum, who I had many conversations with, until, unfortunately, he started to suffer from dementia. Talked about how he convinced all union leaders to invest the pension funds. 

Koch was elected, screaming that he had to account for every nickel, dime, and penny. But because of that, they had to impose draconian cuts, police, fires, social workers, teachers down the line, which meant no uniform police officers on the subways at night, because there was a separate Transit Police Department, separate housing, separate NYPD from five at night to five in the morning, what they call the “off peak” hours. That created a disaster. 

The gangs just had their field day. Remember, at that point, somebody could be robbed on the train, even if somebody would be able to contact somebody who ran the subway, authority, the MTA, there was no radio communication with them in the NYPD, and that’s why I created the Guardian Angels, and obviously filled the gap. 

So we are in a situation where we are going to be facing many of those same fiscal challenges. I don’t believe anybody in this administration has answered for that, certainly not Randy Mastro, who knows this subject well, but apparently he’s not remembering what our city went through. And certainly at the state level, where they’re in denial. 

I’m the mayor, I’m cutting taxes. I’m the only person who says we’ve got to cut taxes. We’ve got to cut property taxes enormously, especially in the outer boroughs, because people are at the level, if they own property, or if they own homes, smaller, mid sized homes, they’re halfway out the door. We have hit them with fees and fines. We’ve raised the sewage rates, the water rates, electricity. Thank you, Andrew Cuomo, because Indian Point was taken offline, a quarter of our electrical needs are skyrocketing. And then these mandates from city council, if you happen to own a co op, or if you own a condo, 2026, 30% more maintenance fees and your co op group or your condo group may not have enough in reserve funds to be able to electrify your apartments, your cooperative, your condo, that’s 100,000 people alone in New York City.

Daniel Di Martino: Remember the gas stove thing? What they did with the gas stoves, that they banned them.

Curtis Sliwa: Eric Adams was all on board with this. He did not at all announce that he had problems with this. Anybody could see this would be problematic. Electrification of all new buildings. We don’t have enough of an electrical supply. 

The one issue I’m dealing with that no other candidate is, because it impacts the outer boroughs, are these lithium ion battery warehouses. 38 in Staten Island alone, residential areas, 12 in Brooklyn, residential areas, eight in Queens, residential areas, four in the Bronx, residential areas, maybe more to come, because they’re hidden under LLCs. The concept was to put them in industrial areas. I don’t have a problem with that. We need the electrical supply. But they went the cheap route, which was by residential property. 

And they’ve been able to do that because of the City of Yes, which now basically says, forget the community board, forget your elected city council person, forget zoning. You have an opportunity to come in against the will of the people and pretty much set up shop. 

Liena Zagare: If I may ask, do you believe that there is a housing shortage, and how would you balance the need for more housing with these neighborhood concerns?

Curtis Sliwa: There’s a housing shortage, and quite frankly, I’ve grown up in New York City my entire life, I don’t ever remember when there wasn’t a housing shortage. 

Now, you can say it’s more severe today, but when you add up all the apartments mothballed and warehoused, we’re talking about close to 1,000 apartments that are off the market. And I’ll explain. Let’s start with NYCHA. How do you explain that 6,000 available apartments are mothballed? 

Number one, in the outer boroughs, you have a lot of two family, three family, four family, small building owners who when either a tenant has moved to Florida or other places, or passed away, or decided, based on when Andrew Cuomo, as governor during the lockdown and pandemic, said, you don’t have to pay rent. Guess what? They haven’t paid rent since. Some of these issues in tenant-landlord court have gone on for five, six, seven, years. 

Perfect example. Robert Holden, who leads Democrats for Sliwa, had an empty apartment, won’t rent it, two family house. “Why, Robert?” A lot of us are not renting it because we don’t want a nightmare tenant. There is almost no way to extricate them if they’re not paying their rent, and in many instances, when it finally happens, they vandalize the property and there are absolutely no consequences. So let’s extrapolate that to rent subsidized apartments.

John Ketcham: It’s worth noting that in a two family house, it would be a market unit, not rent stabilized, so not under those regulations. By contrast, rent stabilized apartments, as you say...

Curtis Sliwa: But again, you still have to end up going to tenant and landlord court.

(Crosstalk)

Curtis Sliwa: For instance, Nancy and I, we don’t live in a rent subsidized apartment. We’re paying market rates. Rent subsidized apartments obviously take up a sizable number of the apartments in the city. Estimates are 35,000 of those units are mothballed, warehoused, and that will grow.

Liena Zagare: What would you do to get them back on the market?

Curtis Sliwa: Number one, you have to meet with all these entities, and you have to save them, because every other plan is a five year plan, ten year plan, “we’ll build 500,000 units”, “we’ll take up wetlands”, “we’ll take parkland”. First of all, I’m like, you’re not touching wetlands, you’re not touching parklands, because we don’t have enough of it to begin with. This is an urban area that requires that we have this with a population of eight and a half million, probably nine million, when you count the migrants, and it’s growing.

You know, as people, some leave, but some come in, and the people coming in oftentimes are not able to pay the freight. They can’t pay the taxes, and we have to subsidize that. So 100,000 units, you have to meet with all the landlords, the people responsible for them being off the marketplace, and say, what can we do, cooperatively, quickly, to get these apartments on the market? 

And I start with NYCHA to set the example. I look at NYCHA the director, obviously, I know NYCHA like the back of my hand. I said, my new directors, your first job. We’re going to shape up these 6,000 apartments, and we’re going to make sure that we house those that are on a waiting list, sometimes of twenty, twenty-five, years. That’s how long the waiting list goes. Now we’ve set the example.

Now you go to all these other landlords, big, mid-sized, small. What can we do to get these apartments that, most are readily available on the marketplace, and almost all of them are going to point to tenant landlord court. We paid for legal aid, lawyers for tenants and a lot of deadbeats and squatters. We’ve got to have people in there who are assisting landlords, because they are being basically turned round and round and round and round. Now, if you’re a big landlord, you might be able to subsidize hiring lawyers, but even that is an exhausting process. But if you’re a mid-size owner and a small owner, the cost comparison, you just decide, even though I lose money on an empty unit, better to keep it empty.

John Ketcham: Would you call on the state legislature to amend the rent stabilization law to allow for more rent increases so that landlords can increase the capital available to use repairs and maintenance?

Curtis Sliwa: Sure, but we know what their response is going to be. Like everybody says, “We love you. Curtis, we love you. You’re the most likable candidate out there, but we’re not going to do that!” So that could be a long term project, based on how we see the political winds shift in Albany, although they don’t look very promising, because the Democrats are not putting up any moderate Democrats to challenge the growing presence of the socialists, liberals and progressives, and the Republicans are always marginalized. 

Like in my own race, “You can’t win. You can’t win. You can’t win.” What do you mean I can’t win? Okay, I started 2018. I have an independent line, first ever that Nancy put together, Protect Animals. We will put animal abusers in jail. I met with Kathryn Wylde[of the Partnership for New York City], the state GOP chairman Ed Cox, we’re halfway through our conversation. I will be meeting with the executives in September of her partnership. She tells me that she bonded with me and Nancy because she’s an animal rescuer. Twenty-three cats, six dogs.

Daniel Di Martino: Wow, you have rescued?

Curtis Sliwa: Yes. But it’s predominantly women. That is an important group of voters, some of whom, as even Kathryn Wylde said, that many of us, she said, are one issue voters. And I’m the only candidate who has spoken about anything that involves animal welfare and has a special independent line that will get a sizable number of votes.

Carolyn Gorman: Well, I’m happy to hear that, because I am also in favor of animal rights. 

[Crosstalk]

Curtis Sliwa: Let me discuss the Medicaid cuts, which need to be made. But unfortunately, what has happened, we can almost do a correlation between what Andrew Cuomo did in a lockdown and pandemic through his executive order, the deaths of thousands of elderly who were removed from hospitals diagnosed with covid, put into long term nursing home care units. Obviously, that was a disaster. He, to this day, will not acknowledge, I won’t even say I knew what was in the executive, he always seems to have this forgetful space. 

But what Hochul has done is basically take Medicaid, because of this looming crisis of people of my age, baby boomers, maybe anything could end up causing me to be in need of a home health care aide, like my mother and father had at the end of their lives. Now they have appropriated Medicaid funds, and if you’re a good son or you’re a good daughter of your friend or your relative, you can be paid to care for them. 

Now, the old way was like my mother was the last of 13 in the family. It was considered her obligation to take care of the father and mother. My grandfather had dementia and Alzheimer’s for ten years. We all lived in the same house, so I realized how difficult that is to deal with. So you have, like, about four and a half billion dollars that is being cut. A lot of that will trickle down to what would have been home health care by family members, by friends. 

I would say to the President and his staff, we’ve just now become dependent on this to keep elderly out of long term nursing home care units. The price is prohibitive and hopefully not hospitalization, because that’s even more costly. Let’s start phasing it out, but to put a draconian cut in right away, we don’t have an alternative other than something that is more expensive. 

So we go right on down the line. So whether it’s public housing, whether it’s Medicaid, education. Now I’m all on board to cut that budget of the Department of Education, $41 billion and growing, 100,000 less students. Two thirds and fourth graders can’t read, write or do math at grade level, 200 schools with 200 students or less. Who’s running the Department of Education, Michael Mulgrew [president of the Teacher’s Union], and not the mayor, who’s capitulated and basically folded on all these issues. Thirteen deputy chancellors, fifty department heads. I’ve gone into many schools. The principals hire the staff. I said, “Have you ever met any of these people? Have they ever come to your schools?” Had no idea who they are, and as you know, they make exorbitant salaries with benefits, and that is a budget that has to be addressed and cut severely without harming children or teachers. 

The money needs to go in the classroom, and we need to protect the teachers, because right now, if a teacher or another student is assaulted, it is not resolved by suspension, it is not resolved by expulsion or arrest. You go into a room and the person who was the aggressive promises shall never do it again, and then they’re right back in that classroom, which is complete lunacy, and that’s what I will address as mayor of the city of New York.

Carolyn Gorman: It’d be easier to justify spending so much on education if kids were reading at grade level and showing up to school. The chronic absenteeism since the pandemic has stayed really high. Is that a concern for you? And is that something that you’d be hoping to focus on?

Curtis Sliwa: I had three sons, all of whom went to public schools, who were told by then –  wow, everything comes back to Governor Cuomo – “You and the teachers don’t have to come to school for about a year and a third a year and a half”, a lot of them have never been back. 

What we need to do now, because we are in an emergency situation, is we have to transition a lot of these high schools to vocational training, as was done in the 60s when I went to public schools. I also went to parochial schools. 

There used to be three diplomas, general, if you inhaled and exhaled, they just social promotion; gets you out of here. Vocational, very valuable. I had a number of cousins, if not for the trades that they learned in high school in the city, could well have been in dire straits. And of course, there was always the academic diploma in Regents. They’ve eliminated that. 

But we really need to focus on vocational training, if nothing more, create a whole generation of home health care aides who understand the psychology of the elderly, how to talk to them, their problems. When my mother and father had home health care aides, like most, they [the healthcare aides] were immigrants from Haiti who could barely speak English, they spoke mostly Creole, very nice women, but did not have the skills necessary to deal with the many complications that affect the elderly. That alone is a growing need. And of course, we’re not providing trained craftsmen and craftswomen to meet the needs locally. We have individuals who’d be more than happy to teach a new generation. They just don’t have the venues to do it. There’s been dramatic cuts in vocational training, and also the space allocated for vocational training.

Carolyn Gorman: I’d also just like to ask one more question, if that’s alright. I’d love to hear more about your experience working firsthand with mentally ill individuals on the street, emotionally disturbed persons -- what have you found works and what do you anticipate other candidates are proposing that will not work?

Curtis Sliwa Well, I think, out of all the candidates, at least the four main candidates, Zohran Mamdani wants to house homeless people in the subways.

If you were forced to live in the subway for one day. And remember, as leader of the Guardian Angels, I’ve had to spend many hours in the subway. At times, I got to take a time out. It affects your mental health and your physical health. The noxious fumes of human waste everywhere, the rats, the deterioration, the entire internal structure of our subway system is decaying, and what did Hochul do? Appropriated $2 billion to build three stations along the Q line towards 125th Street that we don’t need. The infrastructure is horrific. 

So, Zohran Mamdani, who does not spend any time in the subway system said, oh, we got a lot of empty storefronts in the subway system, which we do, that the MTA controls, will house the homeless, some of whom are mentally ill. That’s what a MICA shelter is. There are 300 shelters run by the Department of Homeless Services. I’ve probably been in a third of them, the most dangerous being, or what they call MICA: mentally ill, chemically addicted. They are extraordinarily dangerous for everyone involved, including the clients, because it’s Darwinian survival of the fittest, you can’t get them to take their medication or take their therapy, The executive directors are under attack, as are the security... 

Do you know a New York City police officer is not permitted to go into any shelter, migrant or normal shelter, unless a 911 call is made? Why? The Department of Homeless Services says that might trigger post traumatic shock syndrome, because they see a uniform. That is eliminated. Are you nuts? You mean to tell me if there’s a police officer who needs a bathroom, who’s on the beat, because you got to patrol around wherever there’s a shelter, there’s always problems, especially the end of the month for the Americans, there’s SSI checks to come in, and now the drug dealers come, people selling alcohol, and prostitutes, and destroys the quality of life. You got to clear them out, but the police officer can’t even go in and use the bathroom facilities. Must have a 911 call. 

The Homeless Outreach Unit, which I would put back into effect, was the victim of the $1 billion that was taken from the police budget by Bill de Blasio when others danced on the floor in celebration. Brad Lander was a councilman, Ritchie Torres, all that social networking, “I love black lives matter.” “I love defending the police.” Well, that from his background, Justin Brannan and swears to this day he didn’t vote to take a billion dollars off. It says. Borelli, No. Brannan, yes. 

They destroyed the police department, but part of that was a homeless outreach unit that was eliminated. These are men and women that I knew personally in many instances. They had a borough headquarters. They had access in and out of the shelters. They knew the clients, they knew the executive directors, they knew the heads of security, and they knew the people who were in need of help. Once they took that out of the police department, you noticed the massive deterioration of the outreach. Now you depend on police officers from the local precinct who really will tell you, “we do not want to go into a shelter, even when we’re called on a 911 call.”

John Ketcham: Just briefly on the subway safety issue, the statistics show that there’s been a marked improvement in subway safety this year in particular, but many New Yorkers still feel very unsafe in the subway system. What would you do to address that imbalance between perceptions of safety with the approved statistics?

Curtis Sliwa: Well, first off, if we didn’t have a problem, why did the Governor Kathy Hochul first assign in March of 2024, 750 state national guardsmen to the subway, and then after Debrina Kawam was set on fire, a name they never mention, never. You will never get the police commissioner or the mayor to ever mention her name. An additional 250. So with all this bellicose reaction to potentially the president sending a National Guardsmen, and I can tell you specifically where I would send them if I had the ability to coordinate the federal government...

Carolyn Gorman: Like certain subway stops?

Curtis Sliwa: No, no, I’m just saying you had 1,000 so that’s already been done. If the subways were safe, why did the governor assign 1,000 National Guardsmen to the subway? And this nonsense of perception, especially women, do not at all feel safe in the subway. The perverts, the men who harass them. They are the majority of the workforce, many of them single parent households. They have to pay the bills. And when you go to nightlife that the mayor loves to talk about, they are the majority of the workers, managers of the bars, the restaurants and the nightclubs, who have to close up at either 12:00, 2:00 or 4:00 and go home and take care of their families, they can’t afford Ubers.

Liena Zagare: So, you’ve been working on this issue since the ‘70s, and just about every administration has tried to do something about improving subway safety. Where do you see them failing, and how would you do better? Like, what is it that would make the subway safe?

Curtis Sliwa: Because I’ve seen it in all of its forms, from Ed Koch to eventually David Dinkins to Rudy Giuliani to Bloomberg. And Raymond Kelly was a big supporter of mine, and obviously one who focused on my conversations with Bill Bratton, who originally, towards the end of Dinkins administration, was his Transit Police coordinator and then eventually became Rudy’s first police commissioner. 

They no longer have a patrol on the moving subways. So, it used to be one person patrols. I recognize why you can’t do that any longer, because back then it was gangs, predominantly. Now it’s what they call “random attacks”, emotionally disturbed or homeless. So they have them in pairs. They should start in the rear, work their way up. I can’t tell you how many times when we’re patrolling, because that’s what we do, someone, generally, a woman, will say, “there’s a man in that car there, I had to leave that car, he’s waving a knife.” Or “there’s a man there in that car. He’s banging his head up against the side, he’s in need of help.” They flee. There’s flight. 

Where they position the police is on the platforms, and they position them near the turnstiles, where they don’t stop fare evasion at all. They’ve hired Allied ? from Pennsylvania, and what they do is they stand there and they go over, under, through the emergence, such a waste of money. And you say to yourself, wait a second. This was a very effective way, because generally, it’s on the moving trains that a lot of these aggressive behaviors take place. Nobody’s going to get off at the station. You hear the announcement, “59th & Columbus Circle. There are police here, located...” Nobody gets off.

Liena Zagare: So you would put more police officers on patrol?

Curtis Sliwa: On the moving trains. Yes, it would be assigned to those moving trains from the back, which is generally where most of the problems take place, to the front and back together. I understand times are different, and these random attacks oftentimes take place on the moving trains, the moving cars, and never get reported. So it’s certainly good for keeping your stats down and women -- I mean, how many guys are subject to perverts? Minimal. How many women are subject to perverts on a daily basis? They have a whole squad devoted to it. You can see their pictures. Predicate offenders. They come on the same lines at the same times, they’re fender benders, so they come on when it’s very congested, they rub on women, they say the nastiest things, they expose themselves. You know, what happens to them? Nothing.

Daniel Di Martino: Well, I just wanted to talk about the whole sanctuary city status of New York, and migrant crime, the shoplifting that’s been happening all the high level incidents that we saw, the one that even chased the Assistant DA to her house, and it was the only thing that really stopped that nut job and got him arrested, of course, that he messed with someone in power. So what would you do about it, given that New York City is a sanctuary city by the law from the City Council. The state also has its own directive. So what can you do to get rid of this of the criminal illegal immigrants, especially?

Curtis Sliwa: I just wanted to add one more thing. I agree with the transportation secretary, who is not from Iowa, Montana, but from nearby New Jersey, and he’s ridden the subways his whole life. Who has said assaults are skyrocketing, people are not safe in the subways. I side with the Trump administration on that. 

I’m also opposed to congestion pricing. I’m the only candidate opposed to congestion pricing, which is an unfair tax, and as you can see is being manipulated to try to offset the loss for fare evasion, which is growing in leaps and bounds. I just wanted to establish that. 

Okay, so now let’s deal with my wheel well, shoplifting, which we’ve all seen, because New York City is best known by tourists as the city that locks up toothpaste, but not criminals. Unfortunately, they find out the hard way when they’re being victimized. So you have men and women going in and out. They have an easy pass to steal. The DAs don’t treat it seriously. 

We have Zohran Mamdani, who now wants, if it’s over $1,000, which should make it a felony, eliminate that. Basically just steal whatever you want, when you want, because you have DAs, especially Alvin Bragg and Darcelle Clark in the Bronx, who love this policy of releasing the people who come in and shoplift, you have to order your police department in the interim, until you can get some tactical support, to arrest, arrest, arrest, until eventually they will be incarcerated. 

Do not take an apathetic and an indifferent approach, which is generally what the police have taken. Why? When I talk to police officer after police officer: “Curtis, why would I engage somebody who may get into a physical struggle with me when I have been stripped of my qualified immunity that all civil servants have, 300,000 in the city?” Done by the city council in 2021, done at the state level. 

Never heard Cuomo say anything opposed to it, or Adams. And so now police officers are handcuffed, so you have to begin to move to say if Cuomo can be protected by qualified immunity for the mounting legal bills for sexual harassment that we’re paying for, and they are mounting again. A Democrat Tom DiNapoli says, “Guess what? It’s only the first of many to come.” We have to lobby to make sure the police have the same protections as all civil servants.

Daniel Di Martino: But, obviously, the bail law is also a law that cannot be changed by the mayor. But you know, a lot of these people once they’re arrested, you don’t really even need to, you know, release them. I mean, you could just give them to ICE, if they’re illegal immigrants here and they were shoplifting and they’re arrested, you mean, ICE could come and pick them up. So, is there any way in which you as mayor could help get rid of this, these people who shouldn’t be here and are shoplifting or doing other crimes?

Curtis Sliwa: No problem working with ICE, they should have their office open on Rikers Island, as they originally did before De Blasio’s cease and desist. The one thing I would say is, everybody gets due process in the United States. I don’t want somebody plucked up because somebody says they’re a gang member. Remember, I dealt with gang members for years, and a lot of former gang members are no longer gang members, plugged up, and the next thing they’re in El Salvador. Go to court, they plead or they’re found guilty of whatever they’ve been charged with. Then, after they do time here, they can be turned over.

Daniel Di Martino: Now, what happens if they’re never charged for anything? Because we have district attorneys that just don’t charge people even for the smallest crimes?

Curtis Sliwa: That’s understood, but that’s what you have, the predicate, arrest, arrest, arrest. You build a record, and then eventually that person is going to have to be remanded to jail. Unfortunately, that’s the deck of cards we’re left with. I’m sure the Trump administration now, with their interest now in what’s happening in urban America, will eventually address that issue also, but I will say the one area that I differentiate myself from the Trump administration, and others do also – Rich Lowry, the National Review, other known conservatives, well respected. We have due process in the United States. Let’s follow it. Most of these men and women will probably plead out, which is like 90% of all cases, they take a plea, which would mean the guilty, and then you can begin the process of deportation.

Daniel Di Martino: Relatedly, on the migrant issue, we still have many people who live in the migrant shelters. They’re paid for by the city. It’s been a huge budget strain. It’s a lot less now that the border is secure. How would you deal with the remaining people in the shelters? Is there any way in which you could, you know, cut that spending from the city that didn’t really even exist until a couple of years ago.

Curtis Sliwa: Well and again, you know, you can buy into the fact that Eric Adams stood up to Joe Biden, but I remember the “Biden of Brooklyn” who was spending money, $7 billion of mostly city money, to house them in hotels, motels and other facilities, by the way, where the police couldn’t even go in unless they had a 911, call. So we have a certain commitment. 

There’s about 35,000 left that we know of that the city admits are migrant status. That will be depleted. What you have to have as an understanding with Tom Homan is, Tom, our economy is based on restaurants, nightlife, what goes on in the kitchen, hotels. A lot of these people are migrant status,

Daniel Di Martino: The workers, you mean the workers correct?

Curtis Sliwa: and they work hard.

Daniel Di Martino: I meant like the people who are living in subsidized shelters, right? 

Curtis Sliwa: But some of them do also work. Usually, like a lot of our normal shelters, people do work jobs, they just can’t afford to get a home of their own until they qualify for Section 8 or some other subsidy. So there are quite a few of the migrants who actually work now. You know how they get paid? You know, with an illegal security card, social security card that they get right underneath the number seven train all along Roosevelt Avenue. It’s being done in the open. It’s off the books, but they’re paying, obviously, Social Security taxes. 

I would say the President has, from time to time, stated we need to create a special status for these people. None of my three sons would work any of these jobs, for us to think Americans are going to work these jobs. I don’t know what country they’re living in, but this millennial, Gen Z generation has been told, “hey, you know you’re not going to have to work these kinds of jobs like your grandparents did, or even your parents, because you get your college education, you get your degree.” 

And the reason Zohran Mamdani has done so well is they’re 35 – my wife has told me, she’s a millennial – you’re 35, all of a sudden, you get your loan, you gotta pay your loan, then you gotta pay your rent. You’re sharing an apartment with three or four other people, it’s like a dormitory back in college. You don’t have enough to get your own house to live the American dream, even get your own car. Now you’re really pissed. So Zohran sounds pretty interesting here. And I laugh when they say, “well, you know he’s going to give you free bus transportation.” Half the people don’t pay their bus fare to begin with. I’m the only one who says “enforcement.” You either pay the fare or you get written up a ticket, or you get locked up. And you got to lock down that, the system will just keep bleeding billions.

Liena Zagare: One last question, Mr. Sliwa, you’ve led Guardian Angels, you’ve built a powerful public brand. Running New York City is managing a 100 billion budget, 300,000 employees or so. What in your management experience prepares you to run such a large bureaucracy?

Curtis Sliwa: Delegation. I do it globally now with the Guardian Angels volunteer organization, 13 countries, close to 130 cities we’ve been in, where there are dictatorships, democracies, people don’t even speak English. They develop their own local Guardian Angel chapters, and they follow the same rules. I am culpable for that. 

I’m not omnipotent. You look at De Blasio, failure, Cuomo, failure, Adams, failure. Why? I think part of it is they were the only people generally to speak. I’ve already had Larry Kudlow come on board with economic advisors and say, we’re gonna help you put together a package of fiscally sound principles that the city must live by. When it comes time to having people speak on behalf of those programs, although I have to sign off on it, I’m going to allow them to speak, men and women who dedicated their lives to these fields, and give credit where credit is due. 

First off, I think we all realize whether it’s the federal, state or city government staff does 95% of the work. Politicians are always dying for dollars, Republicans, Democrats... And the staff, which is somehow part of that permanent government apparatus that keeps this city going, a lot of them are really good quality people. They need to be elevated, given an opportunity. A lot of millennials, who obviously have already paved their way, have done their work and put together. Bob Holden to oversee the Department of Education, he was a teacher for 40 years, and a number of others who have come forward and said they could consider becoming part of the Sliwa administration. 

But again, I witnessed many mayors. Bloomberg delegated. That was the best I saw in the bullpen. Generally, a lot of times he would tell you, “I have no idea. Curtis, gotta speak to my Commissioner, my deputy commissioner. I’ve invested in them the responsibilities to make the right decision.” 

Rudy, who I was very close to, micromanaged. Adams micromanaged, but half the time he wasn’t even available to micromanage. And as you know, Bill de Blasio, who is now the mentor for Zohran Mamdani, walking around cemeteries. And isn’t it interesting that Zohran has taken up walking around cemeteries, because he says “it’s parks without people.” I don’t know why these guys want to get away from the people. I treat New York City, like a mosh pit, I’m ready to dive in, friends or foes.

John Ketcham: With that, thank you very much.

Photo by Spencer Platt/Getty Images